Comments for The Soap Box http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com Blog for Members of SoutholdVOICE.com Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:05:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 Comment on “Science” or Fashion? by haroldhomeowner http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/06/28/science-or-fashion/#comment-146 haroldhomeowner Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:27:39 +0000 http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/06/28/science-or-fashion/#comment-146 After reading comments about the 10JUL08 "Docks on the Bay" meetings, it appears that "fashion" trumps science and "the public right...", at least in the eyes of some from Albany. And that some feel that their personal prejudices, and preceived public relations imperatives with respect to special interest groups, are enough to justify an overlay of arbitrary restrictions, covering all land and water from "half way to Southampton to half way to CT". Ask not whose ox is being gored. Yours is next! After reading comments about the 10JUL08 “Docks on the Bay” meetings, it appears that “fashion” trumps science and “the public right…”, at least in the eyes of some from Albany. And that some feel that their personal prejudices, and preceived public relations imperatives with respect to special interest groups, are enough to justify an overlay of arbitrary restrictions, covering all land and water from “half way to Southampton to half way to CT”.

Ask not whose ox is being gored. Yours is next!

]]> Comment on New Trustees forum - ask your questions by Tom Gleason http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-54 Tom Gleason Fri, 30 May 2008 00:16:44 +0000 http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-54 Bob, Thanks for your posting - sorry for the delay in my responding. As Spring rolls in, the kids are back from college, clean-up time, life gets busy. I read the linked article, but perhaps it's not as appropriate to the situation I am citing - no developers are involved. I believe there should be an overseeing project management entity at the Town level - the Trustee level. It's our coast, we know the problems better than anyone else, we see it every day. The 2007 April storm woke a lot of people up. If we have another one like that then we could all be in big trouble (and I'll buy stock in Costello Marine). There must be a non-litigious, mutually-beneficial way for shoreline owners, linked together in a subcell, under the guidance of the trustees, to adapt a strategy that preserves the shoreline. This can be done via remediation, permeable retention and energy absorption - sand, rocks and vegetation. This issue should be addressed with even more agression than Global Warming (as it is the first major manifestation of it). Failing to address the problem will result in an "every man for himself" mushrooming number of permit applications for bulkheads to save properties. Who will protect the wetlands and nesting areas? The shoreline will be gone, the nesting birds will fend for themselves and the story will be over. This can be addressed via a collaboration of shore line owners and Trustees. Can the LWRP provide any kind of assistance? After all we're talking about "Revitalization". You hit a home run with the creeks, why not hit another with shoreline erosion management? Bob,
Thanks for your posting - sorry for the delay in my responding. As Spring rolls in, the kids are back from college, clean-up time, life gets busy. I read the linked article, but perhaps it’s not as appropriate to the situation I am citing - no developers are involved. I believe there should be an overseeing project management entity at the Town level - the Trustee level. It’s our coast, we know the problems better than anyone else, we see it every day. The 2007 April storm woke a lot of people up. If we have another one like that then we could all be in big trouble (and I’ll buy stock in Costello Marine). There must be a non-litigious, mutually-beneficial way for shoreline owners, linked together in a subcell, under the guidance of the trustees, to adapt a strategy that preserves the shoreline. This can be done via remediation, permeable retention and energy absorption - sand, rocks and vegetation. This issue should be addressed with even more agression than Global Warming (as it is the first major manifestation of it). Failing to address the problem will result in an “every man for himself” mushrooming number of permit applications for bulkheads to save properties. Who will protect the wetlands and nesting areas? The shoreline will be gone, the nesting birds will fend for themselves and the story will be over. This can be addressed via a collaboration of shore line owners and Trustees. Can the LWRP provide any kind of assistance? After all we’re talking about “Revitalization”. You hit a home run with the creeks, why not hit another with shoreline erosion management?

]]> Comment on New Trustees forum - ask your questions by Bob Ghosio Jr. http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-47 Bob Ghosio Jr. Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:33:51 +0000 http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-47 In response to Tom Gleason's question on littoral cell destruction and possible plans for remediation and forwarded minded planning on a larger scale; I don't believe I have heard of any plans to address the concerns here in the Peconics per se. As a matter of fact, I can't even find defined littorral cells in the Peconics. The ocean side, yes, and the Sound side, yes, but not in the Peconics. For those who live here, we've come to know that subcells exist and we try to react to their erosion as it occurs. If a strategy was to be developed, it would be overseen by the Army Corp, NYSDEC, Peconic Estuary Program, Suffolk County, Dep't of State, and whoever it was who instituted the strategy to begin with, in this case the stakeholders. I am however, attaching the following link for you to look over. It's implications are vast and would cetainly play into your thoughts on this topic. You will have to copy and paste it into your browser. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE7D61430F93AA15752C1A967958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2 In response to Tom Gleason’s question on littoral cell destruction and possible plans for remediation and forwarded minded planning on a larger scale; I don’t believe I have heard of any plans to address the concerns here in the Peconics per se. As a matter of fact, I can’t even find defined littorral cells in the Peconics. The ocean side, yes, and the Sound side, yes, but not in the Peconics. For those who live here, we’ve come to know that subcells exist and we try to react to their erosion as it occurs. If a strategy was to be developed, it would be overseen by the Army Corp, NYSDEC, Peconic Estuary Program, Suffolk County, Dep’t of State, and whoever it was who instituted the strategy to begin with, in this case the stakeholders. I am however, attaching the following link for you to look over. It’s implications are vast and would cetainly play into your thoughts on this topic. You will have to copy and paste it into your browser.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE7D61430F93AA15752C1A967958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

]]> Comment on New Trustees forum - ask your questions by Tom Gleason http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-40 Tom Gleason Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:22:07 +0000 http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-40 I have a question for all the trustees. Are there any mechanisms in place to address systemic littoral cell destruction and subsequent shoreline erosion? As we all know, shoreline erosion problems exist everywhere - some worse than others. To date, the problems have been addressed with plenty of lip-service, however the final solution ultimately falls on an individual homeowner (or beach association) fighting to save/preserve their slice of shore. This, of course, is a counter-productive band-aid solution fraught with finger pointing and tug-of-war scenarios on who gets sand. In Virgina (Chesapeake Bay), Washington (Puget Sound), Carolinas (Pamlico Sound) state supported programs are in place to deal with shoreline destruction and littoral cell collapse. I can provide links to the documents along with before and after pictures of restored shorelines. The solutions I researched all seem to focus on semi-permeable structures to entrain sand, deflect/disperse wave energy, and elevate beaches with sand remediation. In addition and where appropriate, vertical non-permeable structures (groins) are replaced over time with low-profile permeable and eco-friendly ones (rock based). Its a question of getting buy-in by the shoreline owners and associations and having a "vehicle" to oversee the strategy and manage the project - do we have any such vehicle that stakeholders can be united under? Perhaps the LWRP? Of course buy-in by the Army Corps and DEC is crucial. The technical articles I read on these successful projects also points out that NYS is horribly behind the times and has fundamentally adapted a policy of "do-nothing". (Note: my emergency repair permit for the April 2007 storm is still stuck in DEC/Wetlands - what is going on there???) I have a question for all the trustees. Are there any mechanisms in place to address systemic littoral cell destruction and subsequent shoreline erosion? As we all know, shoreline erosion problems exist everywhere - some worse than others. To date, the problems have been addressed with plenty of lip-service, however the final solution ultimately falls on an individual homeowner (or beach association) fighting to save/preserve their slice of shore. This, of course, is a counter-productive band-aid solution fraught with finger pointing and tug-of-war scenarios on who gets sand. In Virgina (Chesapeake Bay), Washington (Puget Sound), Carolinas (Pamlico Sound) state supported programs are in place to deal with shoreline destruction and littoral cell collapse. I can provide links to the documents along with before and after pictures of restored shorelines. The solutions I researched all seem to focus on semi-permeable structures to entrain sand, deflect/disperse wave energy, and elevate beaches with sand remediation. In addition and where appropriate, vertical non-permeable structures (groins) are replaced over time with low-profile permeable and eco-friendly ones (rock based). Its a question of getting buy-in by the shoreline owners and associations and having a “vehicle” to oversee the strategy and manage the project - do we have any such vehicle that stakeholders can be united under? Perhaps the LWRP? Of course buy-in by the Army Corps and DEC is crucial. The technical articles I read on these successful projects also points out that NYS is horribly behind the times and has fundamentally adapted a policy of “do-nothing”.

(Note: my emergency repair permit for the April 2007 storm is still stuck in DEC/Wetlands - what is going on there???)

]]> Comment on SPAT by Anonymous http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2007/11/28/spat/#comment-5 Anonymous Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:36:06 +0000 http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2007/11/28/spat/#comment-5 Here is a follow up question for Kim of the SPAT program: Are the SPAT clams used to seed the creeks? If so, are they marked with the brown zigzag genetic marking? I noticed this year that of all the clams I got in Jockey creek this winter, very few had any marking, maybe 2% tops. All those I harvested looked like what I would call native clams. Perhaps that is the reason the bayman said the SPAT clams are not spawning. Here is a follow up question for Kim of the SPAT program:
Are the SPAT clams used to seed the creeks? If so, are they marked with the brown zigzag genetic marking? I noticed this year that of all the clams I got in Jockey creek this winter, very few had any marking, maybe 2% tops. All those I harvested looked like what I would call native clams. Perhaps that is the reason the bayman said the SPAT clams are not spawning.

]]> Comment on SPAT by Kim Tetrault http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2007/11/28/spat/#comment-4 Kim Tetrault Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:16:44 +0000 http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2007/11/28/spat/#comment-4 It is intriquing that a bayman would make a statement such as this. First off, it implies that the clams that are being cultured at the Cornell Marine Center (or any other shellfish hatchery) are sterile. This is not the case. All of the shellfish produced have full reproductive capacity after over wintering for a single year (although older shellfish stock are more fecund, producing more eggs). The only thing I can think of that would have started this kind of thinking involves a triploid individual, which can be produced in the hatchery. This involves one of several techniques (either chemical, physical or natural) where the resulting offspring have an extra chromosome (3n) rather than the normal amount (2n). These individuals are considered sterile, although crossover has been know to occur. The process of creating triploids is useful for various applications and will probably be employed at the Marine Center some day in the future but at the moment, it is not a practice in our hatchery. As an aside, if residents were to notice the oyster set that has been taking hold in many creeks, they will notice that a majority of them have a black line running down the center of them, an indication (though I will not say conclusive) that the adult stock was produced in a hatchery. One thing to keep in mind with shellfish and their relative abundance in our creeks and embayments. The brown tide had a significant effect on shellfish larvae and we had brown tide for a number of years. Clams in particular are slow growing animals so witnessing the success rate of clam plantings can require patience (which some of us have and some do not). <em>Kim Tetrault is Community Aquaculture Specialist and Director of S.P.A.T. (Southold Project in Aquaculture Training). SPAT routinely spawns their own adult cultured shellfish in order to produce the clams that they plant.</em> It is intriquing that a bayman would make a statement such as this. First off, it implies that the clams that are being cultured at the Cornell Marine Center (or any other shellfish hatchery) are sterile. This is not the case. All of the shellfish produced have full reproductive capacity after over wintering for a single year (although older shellfish stock are more fecund, producing more eggs). The only thing I can think of that would have started this kind of thinking involves a triploid individual, which can be produced in the hatchery. This involves one of several techniques (either chemical, physical or natural) where the resulting offspring have an extra chromosome (3n) rather than the normal amount (2n). These individuals are considered sterile, although crossover has been know to occur. The process of creating triploids is useful for various applications and will probably be employed at the Marine Center some day in the future but at the moment, it is not a practice in our hatchery.
As an aside, if residents were to notice the oyster set that has been taking hold in many creeks, they will notice that a majority of them have a black line running down the center of them, an indication (though I will not say conclusive) that the adult stock was produced in a hatchery. One thing to keep in mind with shellfish and their relative abundance in our creeks and embayments. The brown tide had a significant effect on shellfish larvae and we had brown tide for a number of years. Clams in particular are slow growing animals so witnessing the success rate of clam plantings can require patience (which some of us have and some do not).

Kim Tetrault is Community Aquaculture Specialist and Director of S.P.A.T. (Southold Project in Aquaculture Training). SPAT routinely spawns their own adult cultured shellfish in order to produce the clams that they plant.

]]> Comment on New Trustees forum - ask your questions by Dave Bergen http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-38 Dave Bergen Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:32:28 +0000 http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-38 Sorry that I have not been on the website lately but I am trying to open the new Culinary Arts and Hospitality Center in Riverhead. All should feel free to call me if you would like a tour (548-3707). The kitchens are to die for! I agree with Bob's comments. In addition, please remember that a primary purpose of a non-turf buffer is to create an area where water plus fertilizers and pesticides can "drain" down into the soil before they flow into our creeks or bays. So we do not support any solid or spreading grasses in these buffers. As Bob states, everyone should feel free to stop by our office in the Town Annex building to obtain information on recommended plantings. I hope to see everyone on Saturday. Dave Sorry that I have not been on the website lately but I am trying to open the new Culinary Arts and Hospitality Center in Riverhead. All should feel free to call me if you would like a tour (548-3707). The kitchens are to die for!

I agree with Bob’s comments. In addition, please remember that a primary purpose of a non-turf buffer is to create an area where water plus fertilizers and pesticides can “drain” down into the soil before they flow into our creeks or bays. So we do not support any solid or spreading grasses in these buffers. As Bob states, everyone should feel free to stop by our office in the Town Annex building to obtain information on recommended plantings.

I hope to see everyone on Saturday.

Dave

]]> Comment on New Trustees forum - ask your questions by BOB GHOSIO http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-37 BOB GHOSIO Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:42:24 +0000 http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-37 While Zoysia grasses are drought tolerant and salt tolerant, they are not indigenous to our part of the world. They are from Asia. They are invasive and once established are very hard to stop from spreading to the neighboring yards. Bamboo, which is from the same part of the world as Zoysia, has caused fights between neighbors which I have seen in my own neighborhood in Greenport. The Trustees would require native non-invasive species be used in a non-turf buffer area. As far as furtilizer, Zoysia ads say it is not needed but that is not true. It requires 3 applications of nitrogen per season to keep it healthy. If you stop at the Trustee office, we can give you a list of recommended plantings. There are quite alot of choices and some are very ornamental. I hope this is helpful to you. -Bob While Zoysia grasses are drought tolerant and salt tolerant, they are not indigenous to our part of the world. They are from Asia. They are invasive and once established are very hard to stop from spreading to the neighboring yards. Bamboo, which is from the same part of the world as Zoysia, has caused fights between neighbors which I have seen in my own neighborhood in Greenport. The Trustees would require native non-invasive species be used in a non-turf buffer area.

As far as furtilizer, Zoysia ads say it is not needed but that is not true. It requires 3 applications of nitrogen per season to keep it healthy.

If you stop at the Trustee office, we can give you a list of recommended plantings. There are quite alot of choices and some are very ornamental. I hope this is helpful to you.

-Bob

]]> Comment on New Trustees forum - ask your questions by Anonymous http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-36 Anonymous Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:09:56 +0000 http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-36 The Trustees talk about the need for non turf buffers. But what about Zozya (sp?) Grass. I am considering it because it requires no care, fertilizer and needs cutting only once or twice a season, or so I am told. Is this a good and acceptable alternative? the reason I ask is because it chocks out weeds, the other alternatives I see become a visual disaster after one season. The Trustees talk about the need for non turf buffers. But what about Zozya (sp?) Grass. I am considering it because it requires no care, fertilizer and needs cutting only once or twice a season, or so I am told. Is this a good and acceptable alternative? the reason I ask is because it chocks out weeds, the other alternatives I see become a visual disaster after one season.

]]> Comment on New Trustees forum - ask your questions by Anonymous http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-34 Anonymous Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:24:14 +0000 http://soapbox.southoldvoice.com/2008/01/04/new-trustees-forum-ask-your-questions/#comment-34 I would like to hear the trustees' response to Dan Christianson's three-foot 2X6 plank repair question. It is more than a rhetorical question, it encapsulates the whole question of what is and is not permissible. <em>Name witheld by request</em> I would like to hear the trustees’ response to Dan Christianson’s three-foot 2X6 plank repair question. It is more than a rhetorical question, it encapsulates the whole question of what is and is not permissible.

Name witheld by request

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